How do relationships become toxic? With Jolene Hwee - Podcast Shownotes
Love has the ability to send us to joyous, euphoric heights that we never want to come down from. As the relationship evolves, that same heart can also be the one that trips us up, leading us to crash and burn as we fall into a dynamic that is unhealthy and unsustainable.
Sometimes the signs are clear, but sometimes we can find ourselves in the same destructive patterns relationship after relationship.
Podcast Excerpt
The following interview has been edited for brevity and clarity
Alyssa: Could you help us define what is a toxic relationship?
Jolene: ‘Toxic relationship’ is a term that has been used pretty widely. In clinical terms, it can cover a variety of situations. On the extreme end, it could be relationships that are psychologically or physically abusive. Another example of a toxic relationship would be a codependent relationship.
Broadly speaking, when you are in a codependent relationship, you are not able to set or maintain healthy boundaries with your partner - physical, emotional and mental. There also seems to be a high rate of enmeshment with your partner, where you are unable to maintain independence from your partner in many categories of your life.
Alyssa: Why are some people drawn to people who are bad for them?
Jolene: To answer this question, we will need to look into the attachment styles and attachment injuries of the said person. Broadly speaking, the opposite of a toxic relationship is a secure relationship. A securely attached individual can balance both their intimacy and independence needs at the same time. Human beings are wired for community and intimacy but we also treasure our autonomy, freedom and independence.
For a lot of people growing up, the central psychological challenge of the developmental stage is balancing intimacy and independence needs. The attachment styles that crop up frequently in therapy are the anxious attachment style and avoidant attachment style.
The anxiously attached individual is pretty ambivalent about closeness and intimacy. They tend to need a lot of closeness and reassurance, but also deep down fears rejection and abandonment. This is where we may get patterns of self-sabotage. This individual may be desperate to be heard and validated in a relationship and craves closeness which may sometimes be associated with abandonment.
The avoidantly attached individual is also equally ambivalent about intimacy but the ambivalence shows up differently. This person may want a relationship, but closeness can feel uncomfortable and mysterious. Perhaps, this person never learned to deal with conflict and is in deep denial about their own attachment needs.
So very often what we see in therapy is that anxious and avoidant relational dynamic, or what we might also call the pursuer-distancer dynamic. The only way to break this dynamic is if the pursuer stops pursuing.
Alyssa: What are attachment injuries and how do they show up in these kinds of relationships?
Jolene: When we talk about attachment injuries, typically, we are referring to attachment injuries that occur during childhood. A lot of the issues in adulthood can be traced back to childhood.
For instance, you were being shamed as a child when you did something wrong, then you would have an unmet attachment need to feel worthy and lovable as a person. In your adult relationships, this can show up as being maybe overly defensive and hypersensitive to perceived or real criticism from your partner.
In another example, like in many typical Asian families, you were praised for your accomplishments more than anything else and your worth as a person was primarily measured by your performance or your caregivers had little curiosity about your inner emotional experience. Then, your unmet attachment needs would be to feel valued for your whole self and not just limited to your accolade. This might show up in your adult relationship as placing too much emphasis on appearance, other achievements or looking like the perfect couple. You might have difficulty connecting on an authentic level.
Alyssa: Why is it that some people don’t recognise that they are in a toxic relationship?
Jolene: On top of childhood needs, we also have to touch a little bit on childhood roles and how sometimes we replicate that in our adult relationships. For example, a female partner grew up being a “good girl” in the family and is the one taking care of other people’s needs all the time, which would become a familiar role to her as an adult. It becomes her default. We tend to repeat the roles that were given to us in our adult relationships until we realise that maybe we don’t want that role anymore.
Alyssa: What are the red flags to look out for to know that the relationship is getting unsustainable?
Jolene: Drawing on John Gottman’s research, there are four horsemen of a relationship. All these four horsemen exist in both healthy and unhealthy relationships but if you have an intense amount of any of these behaviours, then it’s likely not a sustainable relationship dynamic.
The first red flag would be continuous or intense criticism where your partner is always criticising you and blaming you instead of taking ownership for their part in the dynamic. This is not a good sign because the basis of any relationship is mutual respect.
The other horseman is being contemptuous. If your partner is continuously putting you down as an individual, not respecting your opinions or boundaries of values. Criticism and contempt often come together. They rarely exist without the other.
The third horseman is defensiveness. It is usually a response to criticism. When there are high levels of defensiveness, it’s usually a sign that the relationship is on the rocks.
The fourth horseman is stonewalling. It is usually a response to contempt. Stonewalling is also known as withdrawing and isolating whereby you’re not engaging with your partner. This person shuts down and stops responding completely to their partner.
Alyssa: People often make a list of qualities that they want in a partner before getting into a relationship. Is this realistic? Will this help them find a less toxic relationship?
Jolene: I always encourage those individuals to rethink that list. A lot of times, the items on that said list do not guarantee a successful and healthy relationship. Most of it is pretty irrelevant. I think it’s good to have five non-negotiables. For instance, a good non-negotiable criterion could be trustworthiness or loyalty.
Factors like height or profession don’t actually guarantee your relational success at all. If you want to go via the scientific data on what makes a great successful relationship, your partner’s height, looks, weight, profession, income level does not predict relationship success.
Calm Conversations is a podcast series launched and facilitated by Calm Collective Asia. As a means of sharing personal experiences, lessons, and advice, we speak to people from all walks of life about topics that are universally relevant yet often still taboo in the hope of normalising conversations about mental health.
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